Guns and liberty
One of the reasons that countries do not allow guns will end up with police who has sovereign power.
I crinched when I read people who are so brain washed by law makers that it is police, government who will protect you. It is you who protect youself
Picture source:here.
I crunched when I read things like this :
mr nabs // Nov 16, 2007 at 6:45 pm
having lived for a while in america, europe and malaysia,
as much as i despise malaysian cops that abuse their power, im glad that i dont live in a gun society like america where a six-year can get easily accidently shot.
Compare gun victim statistics of countries like america and pakistan with those of malaysia and the hard facts speak for themselves.
guns are as much a sick disease of society as much as cocaine and terrorism.
The comment was taken on the blog of jelas.info’s post titled Police beat up innocent bystander at Bersih Rally – Pics & Eyewitness account. I am not trying to pick a fight with Mr nabs. I am writing this because people has such misinformed concept on how much right government and police should have. If you partake in Bersih rally you have to believe that everyone is born equal and has the right to life.
How could one believes in democracy on one hand and believes that a common citizen like you and I have no right in owing gun ? How a person abuses a right that is given to him or her, it is his / his choice. It is like medical drugs, you can have a drug which is a life saving for a patient but can be an abuse to another person who has availability of that drug.
However, my heart is cheered when I read another comment on the same post and same blog :
#
non conformist // Nov 16, 2007 at 4:39 pmWhy would innocent citizen refuse the right to be gun owners to protect themselves is a mind boggling stupidity to any rational and just mind.
The outlaws will always have their guns – whether you like it or not.
And if you depend on the police of the state to protect you, you are most deluded and deceived.
The right to self-ptrotection is the fundamental rights of every man.
Don’t worry about the abuse of guns. There are adequate laws to deal with it.
If you think you and I should not own guns and these people protect you, think twice, three times, one hundred times :
The king
King: No royal support for Bersih rally from Malaysiakini.com
The prime minister
Lingam tape: PM okays royal commission.
And the police who beat up you up when you are not even involved in the rally.
Picture Source : here
or do you think if these people are allowed to own gun, they can protect themselves from the police ?
We all have the same power as these police if we have the rights to own guns !
Think intelligently my friends and readers. I do not demand an answer from you. You are entitled to your own opinion. A picture is better than a million words.
Stumble this post and let all innocent people or misinformed people that own gun is an individual right, it is not what the government right to say if you have the right or not. But as a responsible adult, you should be responsible for a right that is entrusted to you.
I am a business woman, business is first for me, however, without a free market and just system, I would not be able to operate my business fairly and honestly.
*** This post is dedicated to my American friends who believe in the gun law.
good to know you’re keeping with malaysian politics… this country is in a mess. more shocking reports came out today.
I have not keep up with Malaysia politics until I read your blog
. In fact, I am more into our own American politics than anywhere else. But, I am pro -truth and when I read something that I don’t think is right according to my thinking and philosophy , I will hantam kuat kuat. 
.
very good point…why must only the cops, crooks and the rich have guns?
why haven’t i think of that?
am i the modern slave?
man..living in this place for too long i don’t even know what is right or wrong.
need your advise,Jamy.appreaciate it.
p/s :are you an ex-malaysian?
zewt is right,we are in deep shit!
Yes, I am an ex-Malaysian (if there is such term, ha ha ha ha).
It is alright, I never thought of that too until I live here.
Jamy, while I agree with you on many counts, I cannot agree with you about gun laws. So what you are saying is that everyone should be given ownership of guns to protect themselves. So the man who was beaten should have taken his gun out to kill the policeman? I don’t believe that using violence to combat violence is the answer. The gun laws in the US have gotten out of control in my opinion. Why does a free country like the US need it? Ok, maybe in Pakistan they may have corrupt policemen who kill randomly but this is unlikely to happen in the US as the government is more enlightened. In Oz, John Howard took away all our guns after the mass shooting in Tasmania years ago. It still functions as a country, citizens’ rights are upheld. I think the USA is one of the most free countries of the world so why is there a need to hold that so call “power” in their hands? More like holding on to a potential to kill or take someone’s life, not power.
There are bad policemen in the US as well.
One of my professors and her husband were driving on the HWY in colorado. They did not over speed but they drive passed a policecar. That cop was real mad , got them out of the car but could not sermon them and that started a bitter ordeal in their lives. The cop haunted their lives. He had their particular and he traced them down. He went to their home. They lived in a 50acres wood. My professor had to bring out her gun and told me if he did not back off, she was going to shoot and he backed off.
What will happen to them if they did not have gun ? Gun is to protect us from intruder, not to rampant kill.
While in Europe tour, I met a girl from N.Y, she was raped on the train when she got back from home in N.Y, there were a few passengers, they turned a blind eyes. The bigger cities you live, the more necessities to own gun !
6 months ago, one of my coworkers’ mother was kidnapped(no they are not milionaire) from her own home by a fugitive from Georgia. Our town is south of Georgia and on the Northern side of FL. She came home earlier from work. This guy ran away from Georgia prison. He bundled her up and throw her into his truck, took her for good ride of miles before he dumped her in the woods just outside of the city where we lived. You really never know who will be a strange visitor at your home tonight, it could be a bear, a fugitive or a deer
!. You better protect yourself than be sorry for the rest of your life.
When I get the statistics, I will post a figure here that the states that allow guns law actually have lower shooting rate.
Many of us in the US live in big acres, it is not un-usual for us to live in 10 to 50acres of range home, what would happen to us if there is a fugitive that come out of the prison and take us hostage, we gonna call police ? By the time police come, we probably be a piece of dead meat. No, you tell the intruder to back off otherwise you shoot. Gun is to protect yourself from someone who want to harm you.
There are a lot of Americans who are anti gun like there are a lot of Americans who are pro gay and lesbians marriage. As far as I am concern I believe God build batang for lubang.
Howard is a brave guy, I like Howard for a few things. He is pro American and he is anti Muslim. He did a very heroic thing recently by asking the Muslims in Australia to go back to their country if they want to implement Syriah law. You read my words, unless there is active reform, in less than 10 years, there will be more Muslim states in Europe than Christian states, 1st to go is France then the rest will be taken.
No, we need guns for our own protection, yes, there is a lot of crazy people out there (including cops). I will take necessary preventive measure which is under my control than sorry for the rest of my life, like being molested by a rapist ! or intruder.
No, our gun law is not going out of control. We have 300 million population, Australia has less than 30 millions. How many cases of rampage shooting have you heard of ? 10 or 100 or thousands a year out of 300 million population ? What is the percentage ? less than 0.00001% ? Do you know how many people die of reckless automobile accidents in US or drug overdose in Australia ? No, the media over play our gun shootings here.
Jamy, you are right. There is nothing wrong with our gun laws. The right to own and bear arms is found in the 2nd Amendment of our Constitution.
No where in your writing are you advocating taking justice in your own hands, like what Grace implied. But when we are attacked by armed people we have a right to defend our own lives, in our own property. That right is protected in our laws.
When citizens are armed a tyrannical government is not likely to happen. When all the power and the guns are in the government’s hands then we have a lot to fear. What are you going to fight them back with? Your cangkul? Your parang?
Bad people, law breakers and criminals will always have their guns. Look at Malaysia. Homes are invaded by criminals carrying guns, banks are robbed by armed robbers, but the little guy? We just get battered a bit if we are lucky, and worse die trying to defend our property is we are unlucky.
Australia over-reacted over one or two school shooting. There are always crazy people around, and if they can’t get hold of a gun, they will use something else .. drive their car into a crowd, use a parang in a rampage like the amoks in Malaysia.
In this gun debate, what is hardly ever mentioned is the fact that a lot of crimes have been stopped by gun owners, that is, every 13 second an American gun owner uses a firearm in defense against a criminal.
My husband is firm believer in the 2nd Amendment right to carry and bear arms, and since I married him, I am one too.
Never let the government take away your guns! Once that right is given away, you will never get it back!
Yes, the US is a free country, a freedom that was obtained by blood spilled by the champions of liberty and freedom.
Thanks Doris.
I won’t be surprised that Asian people who come from conservative culture such as Chinese people have been intoxicated by liberal Western culture when they go oversea to study.
Many of these people are decent people but it is so scary that if we learn from liberal teachers, we become liberals, they call the conservatives who try to maintain a moral standard people who are backward. When I read some of the Bersih rally people blog, I wanted to cry because most these people still do not understand why we need to have guns ! Why, most of these people are UK and Australia graduates…, sigh.
They learn more bad things from the liberal West than keeping their conservative culture.
Hard working has been the hallmark of Chinese people (esp. those in the South East Asia) but when they live in society which embrace socialism, they did not know better, they also embrace what socialism tell them, be lazy , depend on government, depend on welfare.
It would not be too long down the road that Muslim will donate money to their education institution to enforce everyone of them to learn Islamic studies like some of the biggest contributors to some of the elite institutions in America, eg. Harvard and some Ivy leagues who has turned liberal in the day light. The day when they put Islamic studies as part of the course curriculum, the day I will buy a small island to live.
Well guys, that sounds good for some people.Look what happenned in Americaand some Western countries the past few years.Children hardly old enough to hold a gun, took their fathers’ guns to settle a score with their schoolmates, killing dozen or so in their moment of madness.That’s gun culture for you.
Just imagine, if guns are freely available in this country, some irresponsible idiots would have used it at the Bersih rally against the police in retaliation.Than, all hell will break lose.
No, Malaysia was right not to allow ownership of guns for the common people.This is not America or the Philippines, we don’t have to copy them.
Puteri, while it was never mentioned by Jamy, it was implied that the gun owner would shoot to kill. what else is a gun used for? It is a weapon for killing. So if you take it out and wave it threateningly at the person who is threatening you and he does nothing, what then? We obviously go for the next step which is shooting to kill or injure. Yes, owning a gun is not a comfortable thought with me because I have two young children whom I am afraid would discover the gun and have an accident. It is reported that a high percentage of those killed from a gun are accidental firings.
So your professor friend was being stalked by a policeman. Why didn’t he report it to the police? I am surprised that he threatened the policeman with a gun and got away with it. Can people just walk around threatening others with their guns? I am really shocked at how lax the law is there.
Sorry, another question since the second amendment was brought up. The original reason that gun ownership was allowed amongst all citizens was to protect themselves from a tyrannical government. Now USA is a well developed country and far from tyrannical, is it? It is not Afghanistan or Iraq.
Grace,
The police went to their home without search warrant. If you step into a private own property with a gun like the police does, you have the right to tell the police unless he has search warrant, you can shoot him because it is a private property and he is an intruder, yes, you can shoot a intruder.
Grace,
The amendment say it is for protection, an intruder or an enemy not just government : “The original reason that gun ownership was allowed amongst all citizens was to protect themselves from a tyrannical government”.
Hi Hantu LautG ,
Thanks for dropping by. I read your blog.
Like I said, the % is less than 0.0001% “Look what happenned in Americaand some Western countries the past few years.Children hardly old enough to hold a gun, took their fathers’ guns to settle a score with their schoolmates, killing dozen or so in their moment of madness.That’s gun culture for you.” It is much less than auto accident. Liberal media play up gun shoot.
Likewise, morphine is good for a terminal ill cancer patient to relief his/her pain but for another it is an abuse. An individual should be responsible for a right that is entrusted to him/her.
Would the police dare to beat the day light out of the by stander if the by stander has the same power as him ? “Just imagine, if guns are freely available in this country, some irresponsible idiots would have used it at the Bersih rally against the police in retaliation.Than, all hell will break lose.”
Because you guys have Tan Sri, Datuk, Datin, we only have common people. The country is of the people, by the people and for the people , we don’t rule by king and Queen “No, Malaysia was right not to allow ownership of guns for the common people.This is not America or the Philippines, we don’t have to copy them.”
I read from a forum by an ex Malaysian : “Not having guns is not equal to lesser degree in violence. I used to live in Bangsar, KL……….supposedly an elite area in town. But unfortunately, the crime rate was so high. The robbers who robbed houses in that area had guns. Mind you , most of these robbers were Indonesians. Where on earth did they get weapons like these from? Calling the cops didn’t make any difference. When the police were called, they would turn up about an hour later. Their excuse? Oh we were somewhere in sungai Buluh. Everyone knew that was a big fat lie. In KL they have Rakan Kop. These guys patrol around in police cars and each Taman has 2 or 3 peronda cars designated to so call ronda in those areas. In many instances, I have seen them gathered at a Petronas station, chatting away. More and more of the residents have become so frustrated that they are talking about arming themselves with guns. I have personally witnessed a woman being chopped on the head with a parang by two guys on a motorbike behind my house and all I could do was scream. You can’t imagine how helpless I felt. The neighbours and I ran out to help the lady. We had no weapons, just sheer will power. The robbers saw the crowd running towards them and sped off . All that blood shed just for a gold chain. The cops as usual, turned up an hour later. But you know something? Many of the datuks and menteris have guns in their homes. Recently when I was back in Malaysia, a datuk escaped from being harmed by a break in because he shot the robbers with his gun. So is it fair that only the rich be allowed to own guns to protect themselves and not the average person? Angry Angry”
My Malaysian reader (especially women or men who have mothers, wives, daughters) who are going to protect them when you are not around ?
Another one said this : “Even if you outlaw guns like in Malaysia very strict gun control. Does that mean we have less violence? I honestly don’t know because i don’t have figures but I think we are only kidding ourselves because what do all these gang members use? Parang-lah and other types of weapons. So many times we hear about wedding parties or people come in a gang to chop everyone with knives, parang etc. My opinion now, it is not the weapon that is bad. It is the abuse of it. We can outlaw or control all weapons but the end result is – people will use something else as weapons and you put more power in the hands of a select few which makes abuse even more likely.”
Grace, You can always buy safe where you can lock it and some even is electronic with password. “Yes, owning a gun is not a comfortable thought with me because I have two young children whom I am afraid would discover the gun and have an accident. ”
“It is reported that a high percentage of those killed from a gun are accidental firings” One of my friends has a 3rd degree burnt recently on a morbid that explode.
Read this and you would know it is not gun that kill, it is to deter :
‘25 years murder-free in ‘Gun Town USA’
legalizing gun is a double-edge sword. it really depends on how you see it.
until now, we dont have any school shooting yet. but it happened in US before.
true, you might say that it is because of the abuse…people abuse the gun… but that’s human nature right? we sometime take things for granted.
i will not say that gun is good or bad…..because it really depends. but one thing i can say is that our country’s police force should actually be more efficient. look at UK, they don’t legalize guns……no? but so far, it’s quite peaceful because they have a very efficient police force. true, there ARE shootings here n there….nothing is perfect after all. the important thing is that the police moves swiftly to hunt down whoever was involved.
back to the gun thingy…. now, we have criminals taking gun to rob people. if you allow people to get guns freely……then every abu, ah kow also can take gun and go rob people. the crime rate will go up. you might argue if we have guns to protect ourselves…….maybe they don dare. but IMHO, the criminals, when they are desperate…they dont really care. they will still go n rob u with their guns…….BUT….they will shoot you first in case you use your gun against them.
jz my 5 sen
Alvin,
How about this : http://www.seaykopitiam.com/2007/11/17/a-town-free-of-crime-for-25years/
A gun town where every head of the household owns a gun and there is no crime happened the last 25years. What do you say of that ?
Is morphine good or bad ? Should we outlaw morphine so that our terminal ill cancer patient suffer in great pain because some irresponsible people abuse morphine ? No, I was robbed in London when I was a tourist there many years back, I won’t say their police is the best. So without gun law, there is shooting here and there in UK ? “look at UK, they don’t legalize guns……no? but so far, it’s quite peaceful because they have a very efficient police force. true, there ARE shootings here n there….nothing is perfect after all.”
Why would a responsible abu go to rob people ? But the robber would be afraid to go to ah bu and ah kow house knowing that abu and ah kow and Ah Pek have gun in their home : “then every abu, ah kow also can take gun and go rob people. the crime rate will go up.” The crime rate will go down !
My dad always has a concealed parang in his car while he had a business in the fish market because there were a lot of gangsters who demand protection fees from the fish mongers. Did these fish monger brought the matter to police, yes, of course, did the police did anything. NOP… A lot of people paid the protection fees , did my dad pay ? NO. Did the gangster dared to get near Mr Tan ? NOP ! We dont’ have guns but we have parangs !
Alvin, I wish you all the best walking on the street in K.L and P.J alone at night without guns. Beware of the Indonesians who have guns and run loose !
Jamy, in this gun debate a lot of the fears about guns are due to ignorance. I was ignorant too before I came to this country and had a big fear of guns. Why not after all the shootings, and the bad things we see on TV!
I think what should be made clear in this debate here is, yes Americans have the right to carry and bear guns, but with ownership comes responsibility.
Jamy, this you have to make clear – you cannot carry a gun and brandish it about in a public place. It is against the law. You can’t have a gun in the car that is accessible to the driver, unless you have a concealed weapon permit. You have to leave your guns in the trunk of your car.
So for example if people want to gather to protest, you cannot have your guns at such rallies. That is against the law. But nobody can stop you from peacefully gathering to protest some issue or other. The only time you need to obtain a permit is when your gathering/rally is going to cause some obstruction to traffic, for eg a parade.
I think what also needs to be made clear here is that anyone with a criminal record, by law, cannot obtain guns. But since they are criminals, they will get their hands on guns no matter what the law says. There is a black market after all like for illegal drugs.
Each state has different gun laws, some more strict than others. But the law for now is you cannot buy a handgun without first going through a background check and a waiting period.
I find the equation of no guns allowed=more peaceful country simplistic. Is America not a peaceful country?! The UK and Australia are not more peaceful than the US. Every male in Switzerland has at least a gun because of the national service that every male in Switzerland is required to do. Is Switzerland less peaceful? It is the most peaceful country and gun crimes are so low that statistics are not even kept! See, the argument of more guns equals more crimes is a fallacious argument.
When children are killed because of accidental shootings that is tragic. But guns are not the number 1 killer of children under 14. Want to know what it is? Car accidents. Yes, car accidents. Other causes of accidental deaths in children, are bicycle related deaths, pedestrian related deaths, choking from toys, poisoning, nursery related products like cribs, drownings.
Deaths of children related to guns have the biggest drop in recent years.
It would be ridiculous to ban children in cars, wouldn’t it, even though the highest number of deaths for children occurred in cars.
Here are some news articles about gun crimes in the UK.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2317307.ece
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=%5CForeignBureaus%5Carchive%5C200101%5CFor20010111e.html
Bottom line: No one has to fear guns in the hands of law abiding citizens.
And yes, America’s government is not tyrannical, and it will remain so because the government knows that the people will revolt if ever it becomes one, and no, it won’t be a bloodless revolution. The government is put there by the people, and the people can take the government out too.
Doris,
Thank you for your effort in writing such a well thought and research comment.
Thank you.
No, it is not because if America is, how on earth would the country has a constitution that let her citizen bear arm ? “America’s government is not tyrannical,”
Thanks again Doris
Jamy
again, having gun or parang or knife or needle is ok if the person holding it knows not to abuse it. but based on malaysia’s history and our education system, do you seriously think it is OK for guns to be legalized here?
we have so many road bullies here n there even when some of us have weapons in our car for self protection purpose. but it still happens.
UK is not the safest place in the world. i never say that. but for me, their police is more efficient than malaysia’s. so far, i’ve been told by many ppl that only certain part of UK are not that safe.
mmm talking bout robbery. without a proper police force in US, do you think you will b able to walk safely on the street? you don’t carry a gun while taking a walk in the park. no?
a lot of crimes in malaysia are not jz break in….but snatch thief also. so how are you gonna protect yourself against snatch thief?
Hey, that looks like KL. It is! Bravo to policemen and the PM. If we have guns, the police won’t even have the guts to threaten, heck even the bad guys now have better weapons than the police. They have automatic rifles VS the police who have hand gun only. What the rakyat have? Choptick & watergun la. Put some acid in there it might work..
Alvin,
Not a million year : “but based on malaysia’s history and our education system, do you seriously think it is OK for guns to be legalized here?”. You think they are willing the give citizen what they have ? Not even in a million year.
Only safe to a certain extend, I don’t necessary say it is safe in everywhere, every city. Try N.Y, I was robbed at day light when I was here as tourist 17 yrs ago : “without a proper police force in US, do you think you will b able to walk safely on the street? you don’t carry a gun while taking a walk in the park. no?”
Show him your gun loh, Alvin, make him scare loh
:) “a lot of crimes in malaysia are not jz break in….but snatch thief also. so how are you gonna protect yourself against snatch thief?”
Ant,
I am not too afraid to say Chinese are basically tossed in Malaysia.
I commented on this post here : Guangming Employee Punched by Umno, Slapped by MCA.
Wow, not only hit by Umno, slapped by your own Chinese people the MCA.
Tossed , tossed, tossed like the salted vegetables.
http://jelas.info/2007/11/18/journalist-punched-by-umno-slapped-by-mca/